• Announcements

    • Welcome to ClanVPP

      SkinLobby - your CS:GO marketplace and trading hub   10/14/2016

      Hello! I'm sure most of you don't recall me, but that's fine. I'm not so active, especially now, when I super busy. I'm VPP's developer. I'm maintaining any backend jobs on the CVPP site, ad well am fixing issues Toan reports to me that needs to be fixed. For last few months, I've been working under CS:GO Skin site, about which you most likely knew nothing until now. We also been beta testing it for the past month or so, and I believe it's the time to let you guys try it by yourself. But before I do so, I'd like to tell you a bit about the project; At first, it supposed to be match betting site, with advanced pricing system, to escape from CSGOLounge's problem. Some of you might noticed, their pricing system wasn't always fair. That's because they were not putting any effort to get prices updated, they were updating them once new cases came out. BUT. Gambling with STEAM API got disallowed, and because I had such great base for CS:GO skin site, I thought I shouldn't dump the project. And that's how currentSkinLobby's idea turned into an actual project. SkinLobby is a marketplace platform built around the CS:GO trading community. On the backend, it's running bots finding safe price* for each item individually. Before I let you use it, please continue reading: SkinLobby is still in beta stage. It's missing a lot of features that will be implemented, and you might experience some bugs while using the site, therefore please don't panic, and I'd really appreciate if you would inform me about bugs you find. Either via STEAM, or under this post. (if that's security issue, please inform me in private).  Currently known bugs and problems are: Pricing system doesn't fetch all the items - temporary disabled.   Caution! You're going to experience some front-end ugliness. As I'm a backend developer, and my graphic designer had just little, I was forced to design the site by myself. The template will change, and is on my todo list!  Links: SkinLobby STEAM Group STEAM Bots ME   PS anyone is welcome to add me on STEAM and talk to me about the project. Wether you wanna share with some ideas, you wanna be part of the project or to just say hi - I won't bite you!   Best Regards, Patryk Cieszkowski
    • ^FacE

      Donation information   02/03/2017

      Please be sure to include your steam ID and IGN in the comments while you donate so we know who its from if you're logged in as guest (Unless you're registered and signed in) It will automatically post a thread once you donate   If you did not include this information in your Donation Note, Please create a new Support Request here with the following information: Your In-Game Name SteamID
    • ^FacE

      VPP Dallas 30man Pub Contest ($80 Prize pool) - Top points   02/14/2017

      Dates: Feb 15 - April 15 Requirements - Own a reserved slot (Donator) Top points in Dallas 30man Pub 1st place:     AWP | Lightning Strike | Factory New (~$60)  2nd place:   AK Stattrak Blue Laminated | Field Tested (~$12) 3rd place:    Souvenier P250 | Gunsmoke | from Cologne 2015 (Team EnVyus stickers,KioShima sticker) (~$5)
    • VPP_Liam

      Player Support   03/12/2017

      Please use our Support Central located here:http://clanvpp.com/forum/7-support-central/ CHATBOX IS NOT FOR SUPPORT
    • ^FacE

      Admin Applications CLOSED temporarily   03/23/2017

      Admin Applications are CLOSED until April 18th. All applications posted between now and then WILL NOT be reviewed
Yeti

Anyone experience GPU bottleneck?

16 posts in this topic

Moving to 1060 from 650 ti 2gb next month, purchased a 144hz monitor however obviously the extra pixels on the new native res is not going to be practical for a gpu already taxing 95-99% on all low with 1440x900 res. I was curious if anyone had ever recently experienced a GPU bottleneck, and can share their experience other then just low FPS, primarily input lag on usb devices. I also purchased a usb keyboard which exhibited inability to push more then 1-2 keys at a time, even though the keyboard obviously has anti-ghosting capabilities. I suspect that the keyboard has a high polling rate and this is resulting in the input lag, the CPU I am using is also from the same intel newegg build in 2012, a 3570k. I suspected this because when turning my mouse polling rate to 1,000 the CPU use would spike to 30-40% when I moved my mouse fast reaching 1000hz rate, turned it back to default 500 and it seemed to have 50% less cpu use during spikes, leading me to conclude there is no option for a 1000hz usb device with this CPU.

 

I would like to have a second experienced opinion if anyone has built their own PCs and experienced similar issues with CS specifically. I switched back to ps/2 dell keyboard setting the cooler master rgb one aside; interestingly enough I dont experience the input lag on ps/2 devices due to the fact there is no polling rate I assume, given its a hardware interrupt registered at a higher priority then software interrupts using polling rates. I concluded the polling rates could potentially still be a issue considering the CPU, even after purchasing a new GPU next month. Any input from anyone perhaps who has switched from 3570k or 650 in the last 3-4 years. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I say to everyone, CS GO is heavily dependent on the CPU rather than GPU. I had 750ti before which game me the same graphic performance as the 690 I have at the moment. I even tried 1070 which was about the same in graphical performance. The core i5 3570k you have lacks a bit in single core performance, which is targeted by CS Go heavily. Maybe that might be the issue with your lag. Have you unparked all your cpu's. Did you overclock it? Perhaps those might help the issue with the fps and lags. Personally I built my own pc with 4690k and overclocked it to 4.4 ghz. I am having no problems right now with the performance, avg 300 in 5v5 and even 200+ in the dallas pub with 30 people. Perhaps when you are upgrading the gpu, also upgrade the cpu also. You can probably get a combo like i5 6600k + 1060 for cheaper in newegg. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I used 2nd monitor and hwmonitor to see the gpu/cpu utilization, cpu was around 85% max on hwmonitor, gpu 99% max, was using around 95% gpu when playing. I didnt notice the CPU tax to 100%, but it could potentially be where the usb input lag comes from relating to high polling rates. I dont think Id opt for 6600k considering it only benches 8k, and the 3570k is 7k; id probably just spend the extra 100$ on a low range board and get a 7700k. New socket really isnt going to be much more then 100$ considering I dont usually purchase top of the line boards anyway, not enthusiast of any sorts. I have built one amd and one intel build, to be honest I really didnt notice any huge differences aside from the gpu drivers which I prefer intel for sure. AMD cpus werent bad, and I potentially was thinking about going atx board and cpu just to get a higher bench and stay in decent price range, but either way im looking at about 400-500$ minimum after getting a new gpu regardless, I guess Ill have to wing it and see if potentially i could get a ps/2 adapter for new keyboard/mouse for the time being until I can finish the cpu/board upgrades during the summer. Thanks for the opinion.

Edited by Yeti

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As hehe said, CSGO is largely CPU dependent.  I would recommend OCing your 3570k, disabling any profiles your gpu has for the game and make sure you're not in windowed fullscreen.

 

Also, are you changing mouse poll rates through device manager or some driver?  If 500hz vs 1khz polling is the cause of avg 50% less cpu usage at spikes and polling is actually the cause of the problem then that is fucking absurd. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Quote

aside from the gpu drivers which I prefer intel for sure

I don't get what you're saying with this since Intel doesn't make drivers for any decent GPU (AMD did have shit gpu drivers for awhile, they are passable now most of the time).  If you're fine with AMD maybe check some new ryzen chips as AMD tends to focus more on single-thread performance than Intel.

Edited by mdnght

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mdnght said:

As hehe said, CSGO is largely CPU dependent.  I would recommend OCing your 3570k, disabling any profiles your gpu has for the game and make sure you're not in windowed fullscreen.

 

Also, are you changing mouse poll rates through device manager or some driver?  If 500hz vs 1khz polling is the cause of avg 50% less cpu usage at spikes and polling is actually the cause of the problem then that is fucking absurd. 

The mouse I tested the change on was a 40$ fireglider opitcal mouse, and it was through its software for changing macros on the 3x fire or just general macros to the keys e..g the pic attached.

 

I estimated that considering the 500hz polling rate seemed be maxing around 15-20% compared to the 30% of the 1000hz, was just a estimate in general but it was definitely considerable difference on the task manager and hwmonitor utilization readings. I've never OC'd any cpus, to be honest never really had problems with the performance, its just dated hardware, past its time. I do agree about upgrading, and it will be over the summer as I would prefer to get the GPU first.

 

macrosoftware.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you do decide to get a new GPU, you'll notice little to no changes in your fps. As HEHE said, CS:GO relies heavily on CPU performance especially its core (mostly single core). If I were you, I'd save up money and build an entirely new system with some parts kept. :)

AMD Ryzen is really good now especially since they finally introduced their SMT (Simultaneous Multi-Threading) technology in the Zen architecture. It's very similar to Intel's Hyper-Threading technology and benchmarks say that it performs slightly or even better than any Intel Quad-Core processor at the moment. Of course, it depends on which game it is but so far it's looking pretty solid for AMD.

There are some articles that I have read where because of this new line of CPUs from AMD, Intel is decreasing their prices for some of their processors. Maybe, you can take a shot at that? I know Central Computers and Frys Electronics around my area have brought down their Skylake and Kabylake processors down by 50-100 dollars for a limited time and I rarely see that kind of sale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, mdnght said:

I don't get what you're saying with this since Intel doesn't make drivers for any decent GPU (AMD did have shit gpu drivers for awhile, they are passable now most of the time).  If you're fine with AMD maybe check some new ryzen chips as AMD tends to focus more on single-thread performance than Intel.

I had built a amd build in 2011, and had quite a few issues with the 6850 drivers, I bsod quite a few times, however I do note that the gigabyte motherboard auto timing for ram incorrectly timed the gskill ram, and I notified them of it after realizing; it was my first build and I assumed auto timing would be correct lol, after manually setting the timings alot of issues I was having ceased, replaced the ram etc, and sold the rig for new intel build i was starting. I only used it for bf3 release around 11-11-11; had issues installing catalyst controller for example, but again it was probably resulting from the gigabyte auto timing which I do admit probably was not a fault of the GPU drivers specifically. With intel build ive not had any problems, ofcourse I timed my ram manually this time, lesson learned...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should really try to monitor CPU usage of the mouse drivers because polling at different rates is trivial for modern PCs and shouldn't cause CPU usage to vary by any meaningful amount.  Maybe if you were still on a CPU that used Mhz to describe it's speed, but with any decent GPU from the past decade shouldn't be affected by polling rates.

 

For instance, here's a five year old thread where they discussed this topic.  http://www.overclock.net/t/1295845/polling-rate-difference-to-cpu-usage-from-125-500-1000hz

 

Given idk who fireglider is, I wouldn't be surprised if their drivers were at fault.  Does the mouse work without drivers?  Also, do you have a mouse that can be used driverless or is from a large company you can use to test if how the driver handles polling rates could be a problem? 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had amd system before which worked well for a while but as it always is, fucked up after a year or so. Been on intel since then, the ryzen as DOGE said looks promising but I would not trust it blindly. As for the mouse, instead of fireglider, do you have any other mouse, perhaps from logitech or other big company you could try? 

You said you have monitors, are both of them 144hz or different. If they work in different hz then you have to play csgo in full screen in one monitor while the other will be kind of useless while gaming. You can tweak around with the setting, the 650 ti should still be pretty ok for csgo since its not a graphic heavy game. 

As for the fps on game, what do you get on a regular basis on 5v5 and on the pub? Is there a decrease in fps when you are using your second monitor at the same time? Or any other programs that might be affecting it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

 

30 minutes ago, mdnght said:

You should really try to monitor CPU usage of the mouse drivers because polling at different rates is trivial for modern PCs and shouldn't cause CPU usage to vary by any meaningful amount.  Maybe if you were still on a CPU that used Mhz to describe it's speed, but with any decent GPU from the past decade shouldn't be affected by polling rates.

 

For instance, here's a five year old thread where they discussed this topic.  http://www.overclock.net/t/1295845/polling-rate-difference-to-cpu-usage-from-125-500-1000hz

 

Given idk who fireglider is, I wouldn't be surprised if their drivers were at fault.  Does the mouse work without drivers?  Also, do you have a mouse that can be used driverless or is from a large company you can use to test if how the driver handles polling rates could be a problem? 

 

 

I was relatively skeptical until turning the rate up to 1000hz and seeing the 30% utilization, adding to that my average 80% utilization ingame, its obvious i wouldnt beable to use this mouse at 1000hz while playing csgo. Ive not heard of the brand either, but the problem is the keyboard usb input lag was pretty apparent  with no way to change or check polling rate, I left the mouse at 500hz during testing with new keyboard, also tested cooler master mouse which came with the rgb keyboard, seemed to be a usb input lag issue in general not related to the fireglider mouse, on 500hz it seems fine, and I still have overhead while playing ingame so Im not 100% convinced its a specific mouse problem, as I think any usb mouse tends to have the same symptoms using higher polling rate.

 

Two screenshots, one of 500hz, then second with 1000hz, I cleared min/max on hwmonitor inbetween the two screenshots.

 

 

1000hz.png

500hz.png

 

As you can see the 1000hz cpu utilization was 36% moving mouse fast in circles etc, 500hz was 16% utilization doing same thing.

Btw fyi the brand is sharkoon, fireglider is just the model or whatnot.

Edited by Yeti

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, HEHE said:

I had amd system before which worked well for a while but as it always is, fucked up after a year or so. Been on intel since then, the ryzen as DOGE said looks promising but I would not trust it blindly. As for the mouse, instead of fireglider, do you have any other mouse, perhaps from logitech or other big company you could try? 

You said you have monitors, are both of them 144hz or different. If they work in different hz then you have to play csgo in full screen in one monitor while the other will be kind of useless while gaming. You can tweak around with the setting, the 650 ti should still be pretty ok for csgo since its not a graphic heavy game. 

As for the fps on game, what do you get on a regular basis on 5v5 and on the pub? Is there a decrease in fps when you are using your second monitor at the same time? Or any other programs that might be affecting it? 

Ive not played competitive apart from my first 17 matches when I started the game before steam pubs, in the last 2 years ive played only vpp occasionally, and some mm dm, fragshack dm etc. I do notice a difference between low pop and high pop, probably resulting from the gpu utilization being lower, however as I stated earlier, the gpu is around 95% to 99% use during playing on the 15v15 pub server, I assume its a bit lower and my fps are a little higher for 5v5s, given alot less is going on, less smokes mollies etc. I have noticed low FPS around 80 in certain situations with like 3 smokes at once on b in inferno or something, but in general im around 150-200 fps idle. The 650 unfortunately is not ok for csgo, lol. Its utilization is maxed out for all low settings here, Ive recently cleaned the fans aswell its just a out-dated 2gb card.

 

I do have cooler master mouse but it has lift off distance issues, so I decided to not use it and just purchase new one, probably will go with logitech after I upgrade gpu, id rather play with fireglider and broken mouse wheel that scrolls randomly then the new cooler master one, just because its pretty sensitive and Im using a smaller mouse pad anyway, so lift off distance has to be pretty low, although Im sure i could get used to it if i wanted to, but given the hardware performance atm i dont think its worth the effort. I will be trying a ps/2 adapter for the usb mouse and keyboard though, since it will not use a polling rate. The ps/2 one Im using now has no issues ingame. I have no problem putting away the rgb stuff until I get new intel build up anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, it is outdated since its 2gb. How is your cpu usage? Are they also above 75-80%, and are all the cores being used in a similar way? Perhaps you can overclock your gpu a little and see what happens, that might give it a slight boost. As for the mouse, it just depends on whatever you are comfortable with. I have always used logitech, so its been the best for me. You can try logitech g502 which is quite nice. Just tweak around with different settings since you are planning to make a new build soon. One thing you must consider is the fps you are playing with.  You said you get an avg of 150-200 fps which is quite good, but considering you use 144 hz, its a bit low. From what I heard its good to have double fps compared to your hz for a smoother game play. (correct me if I am wrong there). Just saw that in forums before when I was contemplating what monitor to buy before. So for example 240 fps for 120 hz would be perfect. However, i did not notice much lags when I had a bit lower fps, so cannot really go further into that. Just use the ps/2 for now and you can try new things when you begin your new build. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try using the mouse with no drivers.  That is insane.  If you have notible input lag on your keyboard as well then something must be wrong with your system (window's drivers perhaps?).  Honestly, that cpu should be able to poll at any allowed rate and not have any change in cpu usage.  If there is something wrong with your window's drivers/processor that would cause this it might be whatever is causing other problems as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, mdnght said:

Try using the mouse with no drivers.  That is insane.  If you have notible input lag on your keyboard as well then something must be wrong with your system (window's drivers perhaps?).  Honestly, that cpu should be able to poll at any allowed rate and not have any change in cpu usage.  If there is something wrong with your window's drivers/processor that would cause this it might be whatever is causing other problems as well.

 

seems to be relatively normal? He gets up to 14% with 1000hz on fx 8320, so I mean it didnt seem too relatively impossible for my 3570k to have a jump from 16 to 36% with 500hz to 1000hz spinning mouse. Obviously i wouldnt spin my mouse ingame anyway, but it does limit fast movement with 1000hz on usb, assumed the keyboard has polling rate issue, Ive used a 10$ usb keyboard before it had no problems, but I assumed it was a low polling rate, lol. This rgb set is probably not at the same rate as the 10$ one was I assumed.

Edited by Yeti

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, TheRealDoge said:

If you do decide to get a new GPU, you'll notice little to no changes in your fps. As HEHE said, CS:GO relies heavily on CPU performance especially its core (mostly single core). If I were you, I'd save up money and build an entirely new system with some parts kept. :)

AMD Ryzen is really good now especially since they finally introduced their SMT (Simultaneous Multi-Threading) technology in the Zen architecture. It's very similar to Intel's Hyper-Threading technology and benchmarks say that it performs slightly or even better than any Intel Quad-Core processor at the moment. Of course, it depends on which game it is but so far it's looking pretty solid for AMD.

There are some articles that I have read where because of this new line of CPUs from AMD, Intel is decreasing their prices for some of their processors. Maybe, you can take a shot at that? I know Central Computers and Frys Electronics around my area have brought down their Skylake and Kabylake processors down by 50-100 dollars for a limited time and I rarely see that kind of sale.

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3328442/bought-gtx-1060-increase-fps-increase.html

 

I did read this thread after googling 1060 upgrade from 650 ti for the hell of it, luckily found a thread from this year, lol. This guy did upgrade to 1060 and as mentioned there he got no significant fps increase, using his amd fx 8150 which benches around the same as the 3750k, 7k range. This is looking a bit more like I'll need to grab cpu/mboard first and gpu this summer, lol. Gah, well I'm glad I made the thread because I did google a few things as a result of second opinions, that tomshardware thread was a decent find.

I was comparing the 8150(benchmark score 7,620) which the tomshardware thread OP was using, to the 8320(benchmark score 8,011) the youtuber was using who said "csgo doesnt make my system sweat" etc. Something I don't quite get is why similar benched cpus, 7,620 and 8,011 respectively; both 8 cores, would handle the game that substantially different considering they bench nearly the same overall on users who ran tests. I looked at different benches on the same cpu noticing ranges of 2k cpu bench score based primarily on the ghz timing (oc) or not bench. I guess I could try OCing the 3570k for now until I decide what I will purchase after doing a bit more looking around.

 

I also wanted to say that my OS directory was intentionally installed to the SSD, but due to windows design (w7) it automatically split the install between ssd and hdd in a hybrid installation, given the ssd is only 120gb i assume thats why it installed that way. I googled this aswell, finding many threads where the end result is a re-install without the hdd secondary drive plugged in to avoid the windows hybrid installation. It intentionally puts system files on the selected installation directory, but puts other parts of the OS in the secondary drive for some reason, very odd, I didn't notice this until I couldnt format my HDD. I tried unhooking it and rebooting and found out the hard way that its a hybrid installation. I will have to redo the OS, redo cpu thermal since I have not done it in a while, and make sure I clean the fan area out good before I decide to attempt to OC it, as I am using stock cooling and I am not sure that is sufficient for OC.

I do notice some benches for 3570k are in 9k range, but those are OCd ones to 4.75 GHz, dont mind me but even if i bought a cooler not sure I could even achieve that easily, or in a stable manner but since I am building a new PC soon I wouldnt mind trying a minor OC when I purchase new cooler. Thanks for the opinions, I am sure I could snatch a cooler easily to give it a go, and have a reinstall without HDD hooked up, think I will be in better shape performance wise, again thanks.

 

one of the higher 3570k benches from this month:

http://www.passmark.com/baselines/V9/display.php?id=79493325373

 

comparison to a 3570k bench with 3.80 GHz instead of 4.70:

http://www.passmark.com/baselines/V9/display.php?id=79510259392

I ignored the specs for different video cards, however I guess you could take into account different motherboards aside from the GHz timing since I was looking only at cpu mark scores.

Edited by Yeti

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now